Обсуждение:kelder
How do you normally indicate stress (ударе́ние)? Uptick? Same as in Russian uptick (́)? -- Wesha 00:46, 12 ноября 2008 (UTC)
- Typically yes, although with a closed syllable it would be kèlder. The reason is the vowel difference between [e] (é) and [ɛ] (è). (The same holds for a-ɑ, o-ɔ, i-ɪ etc.). In the case of diphtongs both members get accented: hóúden, réízen.
- We seldom write them though. Only if confusion can arise, or to express emphasis.
Jcwf 00:57, 12 ноября 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the problem is that our readers (myself included) likely don't have prior knowledge of the language, so I look at this word and have no idea how it's supposed to be stressed. -- Wesha 01:20, 12 ноября 2008 (UTC)
- LOL. Good! Then you know how we feel about Russian ;-) Actually I think your language is worse, because of the cases. Your stress jumps around a lot (and I am very grateful that you show them systematically). In Dutch stress doe not really jump around (and the cases are pretty much gone now) Unstressed syllables are mostly -e- (schwa) so if there is a different vowel or diphtong it usually has the stress. Of course there are exceptions. On the Dutch wiki we usually give the stress only in the IPA description, so e.g \'kɛldər\. There are words that can be read more than one way we call them klemtoonhomogram. (stress homogram), e.g. dóórlopen and doorlópen. In those cases we do use stress marks in the actual orthography.
- The open/closed vowel distinctions (e-ɛ, a-ɑ, o-ɔ, i-ɪ, y-ɵ) are shown pretty systematically in the orthography:
- zaak[a] -- zaken [a] -business(es)
- zak [ɑ] -- zakken [ɑ] -bag(s)
- Stress all on the a's, the -en plurals are never stressed.
- Okay, from that perspective I assume we don't need to provide stress then, only syllables. -- Wesha 03:27, 12 ноября 2008 (UTC)